Unions have great power in our country. Over the past three years teachers unions have been in the news. The primary issue is are retirement plans, base salary, class size, and most recently heath care.
The concern in Wisconsin was that the government was trying to eliminate collective bargaining for teachers unions.
Read the following articles and watch the videos and post your opinions on how states should meet funding and still keep workers happy. Secondly, put yourself in both shoes, teachers and lawmakers, what would you recommend?
Union Issues
Multiple Points of view
Union President Opinion - watch starting at 3:30
Pro less government video
Pro Less Government control
The power of unions is in collective bargaining. By uniting, people make their voice heard. I don't think there is anything wrong in organizing a group in order to express common concerns. The whole Wisconsin union deal was about the right to collectively bargain, not any particular money issues, so the unions were pretty much fighting for their right to exist. If the law eliminates unions, there is a bunch of other ways to organize in order to express collective opinion, so, I believe, there is no point in changing the law. Unions do not have the power to make whatever law they want, they just bring important issues up so they can be solved, which is the constitutional right of the freedom of speech.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kate. The deal is going to destroy one of the few powers that unions have. Unions use collective bargaining to be heard so to eliminate collective bargaining is to eliminate the union all together. Looking at the unions and the powers they hold, collective bargaining was the main tool used in getting anything accomplished, the rest was just defenses the union have to guarantee that their voice gets heard. Collective bargaining is just to voice everyones opinion in one setting. Saving time on both the Employer and the Employees. As a teacher I would find it unconstitutional for the government to take away collective bargaining. As a law maker i would not be able to try to force unconstitutional deals.
ReplyDeleteJoshua Baumgart
I do not think collective bargaining should be eliminated. Collective bargaining is after all the best way to create change. I can, however, see the side of the state. Although unions are important and should not be eliminated entirely, I think the teacher's unions are in some cases excessive. Unions have gained so much power that it is almost impossible to do anything without the approval of the union. It has even become difficult for the student to arrange a meeting with a teacher in order to voice a concern. In many cases the union creates too much protection for teachers and makes them almost untouchable. Senority has too much gravity within the union. Senior teachers are not always the most qualified; however if there are budget cuts the newer teachers will always be the first to go. This system does not reward excellence. Teachers with senority know that their job is safe and therefore have no incentive. I also do not approve with the way that the teachers are protesting. Although unions may be important to them, comparing government officials to Hitler is unecessary. Going on strike, although it is typical method used to gain power, is unfair for the children. The quality of the education people are recieving is diminishing because of the ongoing conflicts created by budget cuts and the increasing requirements being imposed by the government. It shouldn't really be about the budget, it should be about giving people the best education possible. Teachers going on strike certainly does not promote that. Right now it seems like the budget and the unions come first while education comes second. A system needs to be put into place that will keep only the most qualified teachers, not just the senior ones, and will provide incentive for teachers to do their very best. If they don't want to teach they shouldn't be kept on the job. The only way to change the way the things are now is to reform the union. The union shouldn't go away entirely but things do need to change.
ReplyDeleteI really like what Kate has to say. Unions cannot make too much of an impact (like change laws) but I think they are great for bringing up issues that need to be solved or at least looked over. Collective Bargaining is the main tool used to gain power. As an employee I would support unions, I believe that they generally have the best intentions for the company/school/whatever. As but as Josh said, maybe not as an employer, but the government should not be able to take away collective bargaining. Your position could really change your thoughts on this.
ReplyDeleteObviously teachers and workers should not lose the right to collective bargaining but it sounds to me that the union was getting to strong and greedy. It is kinda nuts because schools are being shut down in Wisconsin when Governor Walker is proposing public employees to pay a bit more towards their pension and health care premiums and those both are still less than half the amount of the national average. It sounds like they are being a bit selfish, especially when they are shutting down schools and forcing their students to protest with them. They are taking away from education and essentially taking the students as hostages. I do not think that unions should lose their right to bargain but they need to realize that cuts need to be made and in this hard time the state has nothing to give. I agree with Alex about the seniority issue. It needs to be a system where there are rewards for doing well and where the best teachers keep their jobs and not the ones who have slipped by and been there a long time. And I think it is a bit crazy and immature to compare the government and governor Walker to Hitler and Nazi Germany. I think that unions should exist and they should have there right of speech and to collective bargaining but they also cannot suckle on the teet forever.
ReplyDeleteI agree with alex. i think that the unions have to much power. To have students going to a strike to protest something they have no clue about is irresponsible. In our economy there is no money and teachers are fighting because they dont have a voice now but why not fight when the ecomony is good? Wisconsion teachers pay low for their own benefits and get paid more. How does this seem fair for the middle class who arent teachers?
ReplyDeleteThe teacher unions maybe fighting for power and i agree with having some but when you become almost impossible to beat then its not right.
Think about the teachers in the 1800 and 1900's did they teach for the benefits, did they compain about wages, or did they just work for the children.
Wisconsion Teacher union closed school for what? What did it benefit? DId it benefit what their job intitals( the students) NOOOOOO!!!! It only benefited them.
Kirsten
I do not support the decision of Wisconsin to remove the Collective bargaining rights of public employees. However, I cannot say that I support the WIsconsin unions either.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the public unions have gone a little far in Wisconsin. A Time MAgazine Article I recently read stated that Wisconsin employees pay an average of $1000 in union dues, automatically. The dues are deducted directly from their pay checks and to opt out of the union is so extremely difficult, that few employees choose to do so. With $1000 from each person multiplied by thousands of employees, the unions have immense power. The money they raise is spent on political action. Most of which employees disagree with according to the same article. To me seems a little extreme. If a union is supposed to represent the employees, how can they do so when they automatically withdraw money from paychecks and have little contact with the people they "represent"?
The other problem with such power, is that in a normal company a union can force the company bankrupt if they go to far. How does a state declare bankruptcy? NOt matter what the union wants, they will never drive themselves out of a job. We still need the teachers and firemen no matter what their paycheck or retirement.
I feel that Gov. Walker is attempting to attack this power indirectly by disguising it with the collective bargaining issue. I feel this is a poor choice, but the Wisconsin unions may need a reality-check on how they operate, especially in times of dire financial difficulties.
I can understand where the teachers are coming from, to an extent; the idea of throwing out collective bargaining completely is not right, and I can see why they would strike because of that. However, the Wisconsin unions are taking it much too far. As Karl said, union dues are extremely high, and people are being forced into a union they might not want. Because of this, the Wisconsin union has too much power, and this is what caused a government reaction. As for the lawmaker's side, I can see that something needs to be done about the immense power the union has. I think this is more of an issue that the Govorner tried to fix the problem with the wrong solution. Getting rid of collective bargaining goes against the entire of idea of unions; they need to find a better solution, and not one that causes thousands to go on strike and bring the students down with them.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see the bill proposed so I am not really sure what rights are being killed. Are they eliminating all bargaining rights? I think that doing that is too harsh, though there are enough laws in place that they really don't have to worry working conditions. Maybe the unions need to be downsized somewhat. How much bargaining do they actually do?
ReplyDeleteI think that the government has a much better presented case than the teacher's unions. The teachers are closing schools and mobilizing students in a political debate. Unacceptable. I really don't understand their pre-nazi Germany analogy. They seem to be doing a lot of shouting, and not much explaining or actually arguing. Plus, the democrats in the legislature ran away. So, the protests seem pointless.
(yes, I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate)
Ted
ReplyDeleteI like the video a lot. I am definatally biased when taking about unions. My mom is part of a comitee at KCC that is fighting for higher wages. It is the same sinario that is mentioned in all of these articles. Exept they aren't destroying unions, they are just cutting wages.
I believe that the lady that says that the buget cuts are affecting people all over the united states is correct. There are many teachers on strike as close mount hood comunity college. That shows that it is speading. Unions need to be kept. Most people just need there voice to be heard. That is all.
I liked hearing it for the side of the wisconsen lady that suportive of cutting the unions. Her side was still a litle rediculous though. They sould have cut something else and listened.
ted
Unions exemplafy, in their most basic form, freedom of speech. All a union is, is a group of people who have come together in order to have their voices herd. By blocking these voices from speaking, freedom of speach is lost. This in itself is enough reason to keep unions without question. I agree with the woman in the video who states that budget cuts are affecting people all over the nation. I beileve the unions in wisconson will, in the end, see the pay raise they are fighting for. On the contrary, I feel the arguments for the cuts of unions were somewhat rediculase and off base.
ReplyDeleteZach
In this economy all states are working hard to balance a budget, clearly one of the most difficult tasks put upon our elected government. However an attempt to kill a union is not how to balance the budget. Ou federal law protets the right of a union to exist and the state has no say over it. I am a firm believer in compromising in most political situations and that is what the collective bargaining is for. I do not support the union's strike and completely haulting school. I feel that for the benefit of the state, the employees and the students both the union and the lawmakers need to negotiate a budget on education that doesn't run the state into the ground or the teachers into searching for new jobs. Sometimes everyone has to give a little for the benefit of the whole state, nation and future. To me the job of the union is to prevent the state from making too big of cuts in one department.
ReplyDeleteThe teachers have a right to collective bargaining. This allows them to get their voice out to the government and public, and ensures their needs are met. If we don't support our teachers, then we don't support the education of our youth and America's future. The government seems to be doing their best to tighten a budget by targeting groups that seem to be easy targets. I believe the issues in Wisconsin were taken too far, from both the political and union standpoints. The politicians may not like how powerful the unions are, but in order for anything to be accomplished the unions and government are going to have to compromise for the good of all.
ReplyDeleteCollective bargaining allows teachers to get their voice out, however I do not believe that it can solve the problem. It just gives the government and public know the issue in education. Collective bargaining is typically considered an agreement worked out between a group of workers and their employer. In the private sector workers organize to demonstrate a desire to form a negotiated partnership with their employer with both sides understanding that the enterprise must succeed to be of any benefit.Getting rid of collective bargaining goes against the entire of idea of unions; they need to find a better solution.
ReplyDeleteI really don't see a positive whatsoever in eliminating unions. All you would get are a whole lot of even more pissed off workers. There is noting wrong with having a union. It is a plus for the employers because they get to hear the employees side in an organized and calm way. And employees like unions because it gives them a chance to be heard. Unions should not be eliminated, it would only cause more trouble.
ReplyDelete"Ultimately we have to be better at what we do, so do parents, so do kids. Because we have to help make sure we help kids succeed in a knowledge economy.” I really liked these lines in the article because they help explain my stance on teacher/education funds, ect. I think teachers should be given whatever tools necessary to run an effective and prosperous classroom. They deserve to have collective bargaining, benefits, and so on because teachers have had to work hard to get where they are and continue to work hard day in and out within their classrooms. Also I don't think it,s appropriate for Gov. Scott Walker to pick out any one individual group on which to place blame for state budgeting problems. As a state or nation it is our responsibility to come together as a whole and decide upon which draining things we can or can't do without.
ReplyDeleteI could agree with some aspects of Scott Walker's plan but when it comes down to it the thing he wants to take away, would and could destroy the unions entirely. Collective bargaining drives the force behind unions and with that gone what would be the point? The unions do deserve collective bargaining and while i disagree with a lot of the ideas that a union embodies I do agree they have the right to have collective bargaining. As a lawmaker I could see where the governor was coming from but it seems obvious that he wasn't completely aware of the terms that a union would need to be successful.
ReplyDeleteLast comment was Peter
ReplyDeleteLike others said, I can understand where the teachers are coming from, the idea of eliminating collective bargaining completely is not ideal, and I can see why they would strike because of that. However, union dues in Wisconsin are extremely high, and people are being forced into a union they might not want to be in.
ReplyDeleteCollective bargaining is the best way that unions can make the change that they want, so collective bargaining should not be eliminated. Kate pretty much summed up my thoughts on the issue. I don’t see there being a need to change the law. Collective bargaining is a form of freedom of speech and it would be wrong to try to take that away.
ReplyDeleteThe great thing about Unions is that you gain the ability to collectively bargain. You are able to unite to become something more powerful than just one person. The thing with Wisconsin is that they are not arguing about money, they are arguing about being able to do what a union does best, collectively bargain. With that being said I am not personally a fan of most unions. I do not think that the way they go about achieving benefits is fair. They are almost untouchable in what they do. Take a teachers union for example. The teachers know that all they have to do to be on top is to be there the longest. This is both discouraging to incoming teachers, and enabling to senior teachers who dont do crap. Then when a budget cut happens what teachers usually go first? The newest, whether they deserve to go or not. To me this is ridiculous. I dont think that unions should disappear, because I know that they serve a purpose, but I do think that some steps should be taken to make them a bit more fair.
ReplyDelete-Luke